Hating America doesn’t make you cool/funny.

First topic message reminder :

I feel like this should be obvious, but living in a hyper liberal city in California, it gets pretty bad. A person once screamed at me because I was wearing a shirt with the flag on the side, because I guess you are a Nazi if you support the country you live in.
Also it seems my peers think it is hilarious whenever they insult our country and it’s history, and it is seriously starting to get on my nerves.
Don’t get me wrong, America has made some mistakes, but it also is the bastion for freedom, and legitimately the greatest country on earth.
That’s my rant.

Nationalism is probably the single best development in human history. Before nationalism you had conflicts like the 30 years war where 1/3 of Germany’s population died. Without some central authority to decide when to throw in the hat you have these never ending wars that kill millions. A war of that scale in modern Europe would make the Second World War look like daycare. Nationalism has its problems but it’s better than the alternative.

Vincent Perez wrote:Nationalism is probably the single best development in human history. Before nationalism you had conflicts like the 30 years war where 1/3 of Germany’s population died. Without some central authority to decide when to throw in the hat you have these never ending wars that kill millions. A war of that scale in modern Europe would make the Second World War look like daycare. Nationalism has its problems but it’s better than the alternative.

Nationalism is one of the central causes of WWI, which caused WWII, resulting in the CW, Korea, and Vietnam.
So, wrong.
Nationalism was also Hitler's largest selling point. In addition, it was also the KKK's core philosophy. A central authority has nothing to do with nationalism as nationalism is the belief in the political independence of a particular nation, like Israel which is a nation. So no, nationalism is not good.
nationalism =/= patriotism

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Vincent Perez wrote:Nationalism is probably the single best development in human history. Before nationalism you had conflicts like the 30 years war where 1/3 of Germany’s population died. Without some central authority to decide when to throw in the hat you have these never ending wars that kill millions. A war of that scale in modern Europe would make the Second World War look like daycare. Nationalism has its problems but it’s better than the alternative.

Nationalism is one of the central causes of WWI, which caused WWII, resulting in the CW, Korea, and Vietnam.
So, wrong.
Nationalism was also Hitler's largest selling point. In addition, it was also the KKK's core philosophy. A central authority has nothing to do with nationalism as nationalism is the belief in the political independence of a particular nation, like Israel which is a nation. So no, nationalism is not good.
nationalism =/= patriotism

Fucking...
No, what you are talking about is fucking imperialism. Not the same, often almost the opposite.

Wayland Hubbard wrote:

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Vincent Perez wrote:Nationalism is probably the single best development in human history. Before nationalism you had conflicts like the 30 years war where 1/3 of Germany’s population died. Without some central authority to decide when to throw in the hat you have these never ending wars that kill millions. A war of that scale in modern Europe would make the Second World War look like daycare. Nationalism has its problems but it’s better than the alternative.

Nationalism is one of the central causes of WWI, which caused WWII, resulting in the CW, Korea, and Vietnam.
So, wrong.
Nationalism was also Hitler's largest selling point. In addition, it was also the KKK's core philosophy. A central authority has nothing to do with nationalism as nationalism is the belief in the political independence of a particular nation, like Israel which is a nation. So no, nationalism is not good.
nationalism =/= patriotism

Fucking...
No, what you are talking about is fucking imperialism. Not the same, often almost the opposite.

Nationalism is one of the greatest CAUSES for imperialism. Nationalism was one of the sole driving forces behind manifest destiny in U.S history. Second, imperialism is not the total opposite in fact imperialistic actions are based in the nationalistic belief of a nations supremacy, so no. Nationalism led to the scramble for imperialism as evidenced by the appeasement of Hitler and even in the scramble for Africa where nationalistic countries served to one up each other by amassing more land. Learn history.

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Wayland Hubbard wrote:

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Vincent Perez wrote:Nationalism is probably the single best development in human history. Before nationalism you had conflicts like the 30 years war where 1/3 of Germany’s population died. Without some central authority to decide when to throw in the hat you have these never ending wars that kill millions. A war of that scale in modern Europe would make the Second World War look like daycare. Nationalism has its problems but it’s better than the alternative.

Nationalism is one of the central causes of WWI, which caused WWII, resulting in the CW, Korea, and Vietnam.
So, wrong.
Nationalism was also Hitler's largest selling point. In addition, it was also the KKK's core philosophy. A central authority has nothing to do with nationalism as nationalism is the belief in the political independence of a particular nation, like Israel which is a nation. So no, nationalism is not good.
nationalism =/= patriotism

Fucking...
No, what you are talking about is fucking imperialism. Not the same, often almost the opposite.

Nationalism is one of the greatest CAUSES for imperialism. Nationalism was one of the sole driving forces behind manifest destiny in U.S history. Second, imperialism is not the total opposite in fact imperialistic actions are based in the nationalistic belief of a nations supremacy, so no. Nationalism led to the scramble for imperialism as evidenced by the appeasement of Hitler and even in the scramble for Africa where nationalistic countries served to one up each other by amassing more land. Learn history.

By that logic, Communists and socialists didn't have to kill more people than those patriotic Nazis and nationalistic fascists. Sorry, Marxists (who support globalism under the same government), not patriots or nationalists, supported such crimes against humanity more often and at a greater scale. Greater than any religion or fascist idea.

Wayland Hubbard wrote:

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Wayland Hubbard wrote:

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Vincent Perez wrote:Nationalism is probably the single best development in human history. Before nationalism you had conflicts like the 30 years war where 1/3 of Germany’s population died. Without some central authority to decide when to throw in the hat you have these never ending wars that kill millions. A war of that scale in modern Europe would make the Second World War look like daycare. Nationalism has its problems but it’s better than the alternative.

Nationalism is one of the central causes of WWI, which caused WWII, resulting in the CW, Korea, and Vietnam.
So, wrong.
Nationalism was also Hitler's largest selling point. In addition, it was also the KKK's core philosophy. A central authority has nothing to do with nationalism as nationalism is the belief in the political independence of a particular nation, like Israel which is a nation. So no, nationalism is not good.
nationalism =/= patriotism

Fucking...
No, what you are talking about is fucking imperialism. Not the same, often almost the opposite.

Nationalism is one of the greatest CAUSES for imperialism. Nationalism was one of the sole driving forces behind manifest destiny in U.S history. Second, imperialism is not the total opposite in fact imperialistic actions are based in the nationalistic belief of a nations supremacy, so no. Nationalism led to the scramble for imperialism as evidenced by the appeasement of Hitler and even in the scramble for Africa where nationalistic countries served to one up each other by amassing more land. Learn history.

By that logic, Communists and socialists didn't have to kill more people than those patriotic Nazis and nationalistic fascists. Sorry, Marxists (who support globalism under the same government), not patriots or nationalists, supported such crimes against humanity more often and at a greater scale. Greater than any religion or fascist idea.

Strawman, not the point I made, and the commies were also nationalists under Stalin. And since most wars in 20th century were snowballed by nationalism fueled the first World War, my point still stands.
Also, Marxists or communists, it really does not matter.
Stalin did engage in ethnic cleansing which is a nationalistic act.

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Wayland Hubbard wrote:

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Wayland Hubbard wrote:

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Vincent Perez wrote:Nationalism is probably the single best development in human history. Before nationalism you had conflicts like the 30 years war where 1/3 of Germany’s population died. Without some central authority to decide when to throw in the hat you have these never ending wars that kill millions. A war of that scale in modern Europe would make the Second World War look like daycare. Nationalism has its problems but it’s better than the alternative.

Nationalism is one of the central causes of WWI, which caused WWII, resulting in the CW, Korea, and Vietnam.
So, wrong.
Nationalism was also Hitler's largest selling point. In addition, it was also the KKK's core philosophy. A central authority has nothing to do with nationalism as nationalism is the belief in the political independence of a particular nation, like Israel which is a nation. So no, nationalism is not good.
nationalism =/= patriotism

Fucking...
No, what you are talking about is fucking imperialism. Not the same, often almost the opposite.

Nationalism is one of the greatest CAUSES for imperialism. Nationalism was one of the sole driving forces behind manifest destiny in U.S history. Second, imperialism is not the total opposite in fact imperialistic actions are based in the nationalistic belief of a nations supremacy, so no. Nationalism led to the scramble for imperialism as evidenced by the appeasement of Hitler and even in the scramble for Africa where nationalistic countries served to one up each other by amassing more land. Learn history.

By that logic, Communists and socialists didn't have to kill more people than those patriotic Nazis and nationalistic fascists. Sorry, Marxists (who support globalism under the same government), not patriots or nationalists, supported such crimes against humanity more often and at a greater scale. Greater than any religion or fascist idea.

Strawman, not the point I made, and the commies were also nationalists under Stalin. And since most wars in 20th century were snowballed by nationalism fueled the first World War, my point still stands.
Also, Marxists or communists, it really does not matter.
Stalin did engage in ethnic cleansing which is a nationalistic act.

Not really. They didn't want to impose a nation or its values, but rather a Marxist economic system. Mao even tried to eradicate the Chinese culture.

Also, Marxists or communists, it really does not matter.
Stalin did engage in ethnic cleansing which is a nationalistic act.

What the FUCK?
So according you you, if it was not for ethnic cleansing, just killing people for thinking different or not supporting the party, it was not so bad?

Wayland Hubbard wrote:

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Wayland Hubbard wrote:

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Wayland Hubbard wrote:

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Vincent Perez wrote:Nationalism is probably the single best development in human history. Before nationalism you had conflicts like the 30 years war where 1/3 of Germany’s population died. Without some central authority to decide when to throw in the hat you have these never ending wars that kill millions. A war of that scale in modern Europe would make the Second World War look like daycare. Nationalism has its problems but it’s better than the alternative.

Nationalism is one of the central causes of WWI, which caused WWII, resulting in the CW, Korea, and Vietnam.
So, wrong.
Nationalism was also Hitler's largest selling point. In addition, it was also the KKK's core philosophy. A central authority has nothing to do with nationalism as nationalism is the belief in the political independence of a particular nation, like Israel which is a nation. So no, nationalism is not good.
nationalism =/= patriotism

Fucking...
No, what you are talking about is fucking imperialism. Not the same, often almost the opposite.

Nationalism is one of the greatest CAUSES for imperialism. Nationalism was one of the sole driving forces behind manifest destiny in U.S history. Second, imperialism is not the total opposite in fact imperialistic actions are based in the nationalistic belief of a nations supremacy, so no. Nationalism led to the scramble for imperialism as evidenced by the appeasement of Hitler and even in the scramble for Africa where nationalistic countries served to one up each other by amassing more land. Learn history.

By that logic, Communists and socialists didn't have to kill more people than those patriotic Nazis and nationalistic fascists. Sorry, Marxists (who support globalism under the same government), not patriots or nationalists, supported such crimes against humanity more often and at a greater scale. Greater than any religion or fascist idea.

Strawman, not the point I made, and the commies were also nationalists under Stalin. And since most wars in 20th century were snowballed by nationalism fueled the first World War, my point still stands.
Also, Marxists or communists, it really does not matter.
Stalin did engage in ethnic cleansing which is a nationalistic act.

Not really. They didn't want to impose a nation or its values, but rather a Marxist economic system. Mao even tried to eradicate the Chinese culture.

Also, Marxists or communists, it really does not matter.
Stalin did engage in ethnic cleansing which is a nationalistic act.

What the FUCK?
So according you you, if it was not for ethnic cleansing, just killing people for thinking different or not supporting the party, it was not so bad?

For fucks sake, strawman again. I never said anything about good or bad. Neither did I make the claim you are suggesting. Never said anything like it.
and, again, It is generally agreed upon by historians that Mao's Zedong is Indeed a "messianic revolutionary nationalist" in spite of his own beliefs. In fact, his nationalistic side is no secret, its almost a motif of his rule

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Wayland Hubbard wrote:

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Wayland Hubbard wrote:

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Wayland Hubbard wrote:

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Vincent Perez wrote:Nationalism is probably the single best development in human history. Before nationalism you had conflicts like the 30 years war where 1/3 of Germany’s population died. Without some central authority to decide when to throw in the hat you have these never ending wars that kill millions. A war of that scale in modern Europe would make the Second World War look like daycare. Nationalism has its problems but it’s better than the alternative.

Nationalism is one of the central causes of WWI, which caused WWII, resulting in the CW, Korea, and Vietnam.
So, wrong.
Nationalism was also Hitler's largest selling point. In addition, it was also the KKK's core philosophy. A central authority has nothing to do with nationalism as nationalism is the belief in the political independence of a particular nation, like Israel which is a nation. So no, nationalism is not good.
nationalism =/= patriotism

Fucking...
No, what you are talking about is fucking imperialism. Not the same, often almost the opposite.

Nationalism is one of the greatest CAUSES for imperialism. Nationalism was one of the sole driving forces behind manifest destiny in U.S history. Second, imperialism is not the total opposite in fact imperialistic actions are based in the nationalistic belief of a nations supremacy, so no. Nationalism led to the scramble for imperialism as evidenced by the appeasement of Hitler and even in the scramble for Africa where nationalistic countries served to one up each other by amassing more land. Learn history.

By that logic, Communists and socialists didn't have to kill more people than those patriotic Nazis and nationalistic fascists. Sorry, Marxists (who support globalism under the same government), not patriots or nationalists, supported such crimes against humanity more often and at a greater scale. Greater than any religion or fascist idea.

Strawman, not the point I made, and the commies were also nationalists under Stalin. And since most wars in 20th century were snowballed by nationalism fueled the first World War, my point still stands.
Also, Marxists or communists, it really does not matter.
Stalin did engage in ethnic cleansing which is a nationalistic act.

Not really. They didn't want to impose a nation or its values, but rather a Marxist economic system. Mao even tried to eradicate the Chinese culture.

Also, Marxists or communists, it really does not matter.
Stalin did engage in ethnic cleansing which is a nationalistic act.

What the FUCK?
So according you you, if it was not for ethnic cleansing, just killing people for thinking different or not supporting the party, it was not so bad?

For fucks sake, strawman again. I never said anything about good or bad. Neither did I make the claim you are suggesting. Never said anything like it.
and, again,  It is generally agreed upon by historians that Mao's Zedong is Indeed a "messianic revolutionary nationalist" in spite of his own beliefs. In fact, his nationalistic side is no secret, its almost a motif of his rule

You are defining nationalism in the terms of totalitarianism, which is a good example of a straw man. Rather than nationalism, Marxism is far a greater predictor of a shitty and totalitarian government, because that is what happens when you put all power in the hands of the "geniuses" that will "fix the economy" and "do better than the free market".

Wayland Hubbard wrote:

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Wayland Hubbard wrote:

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Wayland Hubbard wrote:

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Wayland Hubbard wrote:

Sumiko Sewell wrote:

Vincent Perez wrote:Nationalism is probably the single best development in human history. Before nationalism you had conflicts like the 30 years war where 1/3 of Germany’s population died. Without some central authority to decide when to throw in the hat you have these never ending wars that kill millions. A war of that scale in modern Europe would make the Second World War look like daycare. Nationalism has its problems but it’s better than the alternative.

Nationalism is one of the central causes of WWI, which caused WWII, resulting in the CW, Korea, and Vietnam.
So, wrong.
Nationalism was also Hitler's largest selling point. In addition, it was also the KKK's core philosophy. A central authority has nothing to do with nationalism as nationalism is the belief in the political independence of a particular nation, like Israel which is a nation. So no, nationalism is not good.
nationalism =/= patriotism

Fucking...
No, what you are talking about is fucking imperialism. Not the same, often almost the opposite.

Nationalism is one of the greatest CAUSES for imperialism. Nationalism was one of the sole driving forces behind manifest destiny in U.S history. Second, imperialism is not the total opposite in fact imperialistic actions are based in the nationalistic belief of a nations supremacy, so no. Nationalism led to the scramble for imperialism as evidenced by the appeasement of Hitler and even in the scramble for Africa where nationalistic countries served to one up each other by amassing more land. Learn history.

By that logic, Communists and socialists didn't have to kill more people than those patriotic Nazis and nationalistic fascists. Sorry, Marxists (who support globalism under the same government), not patriots or nationalists, supported such crimes against humanity more often and at a greater scale. Greater than any religion or fascist idea.

Strawman, not the point I made, and the commies were also nationalists under Stalin. And since most wars in 20th century were snowballed by nationalism fueled the first World War, my point still stands.
Also, Marxists or communists, it really does not matter.
Stalin did engage in ethnic cleansing which is a nationalistic act.

Not really. They didn't want to impose a nation or its values, but rather a Marxist economic system. Mao even tried to eradicate the Chinese culture.

Also, Marxists or communists, it really does not matter.
Stalin did engage in ethnic cleansing which is a nationalistic act.

What the FUCK?
So according you you, if it was not for ethnic cleansing, just killing people for thinking different or not supporting the party, it was not so bad?

For fucks sake, strawman again. I never said anything about good or bad. Neither did I make the claim you are suggesting. Never said anything like it.
and, again,  It is generally agreed upon by historians that Mao's Zedong is Indeed a "messianic revolutionary nationalist" in spite of his own beliefs. In fact, his nationalistic side is no secret, its almost a motif of his rule

You are defining nationalism in the terms of totalitarianism, which is a good example of a straw man. Rather than nationalism, Marxism is far a greater predictor of a shitty and totalitarian government, because that is what happens when you put all power in the hands of the "geniuses" that will "fix the economy" and "do better than the free market".

I'm tired of the strawman arguments. That was not my definition of nationalism never even said anything about totalitarianism, you just threw that in to the conversation, so ironically you are straw-manning.
I'm going to end it with this. I don't know why you are so insistent on pulling things into the conversation that make no sense. If you're attempting saying that Marxism is worse than nationalism, no; nationalism has caused most of humanities wars, allowed for colonialism, racism, imperialism, monopolization of the wealth of other countries, mercantilism and the list goes on. Sure, Marxism has been crappy for the couple hundred years around but attempting to even assert that it has done nearly as much damage as nationalism is absolutely egregious.
Let's not forget that totalitarian regimes are often driven by nationalism.